The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Dalty » October 21st, 2016, 2:15 am

For Trump, there is no other league! He has a lot of words. Maybe they keep slipping through his tiny fingers.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » October 21st, 2016, 11:33 pm

I haven't even bothered to watch this video:

https://www.facebook.com/isupportdonald ... 1740742432

Why haven't I bothered to watch it? Because it happened back in 2000. Should we really judge a man based on something he did or said more than ten years ago? And besides, that's not the Donald Trump I know.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » October 25th, 2016, 8:47 am

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... m-campaign

I've thought about this. It reminds me of a situation similar to the one I faced during my second year in little league.

My first year started the summer after third grade. They were still using the pitching machine. I got a few base hits, but I struck out more often than not.

I have an incredibly slow reaction time. That's the real culprit. It's something I've struggled with my entire life. It's a big part of why I was diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder.

My second year of little league was the first year they allowed the kids to pitch. I noticed something while watching the kid pitchers: they all stunk.

It occurred to me, considering how ineffectual I had been as a hitter against a pretty precise mechanical pitcher, that I'd probably have better luck if I just never did any more swinging. Thanks to this strategy, I got walked about half the time. This made it so that I had some of the highest on-base stats on the team.

I got booed a lot, but the humiliation of those boos was slighter than the humiliation of the laughter from the previous season had been. I imagine the pitching got better in later years, but my elbow got to be too bad after that (I'd already had two surgeries on it by then, and I had another one a few years down the road), so I left baseball and moved on to other sports.

Anyway, I see something similar with the Clinton situation. It looks like she recognizes that Trump's pitches are wild and that she's better off just letting those wild pitches walk her to base. She's been heckling him from the batter's box, sure, but many would say that's part of the game.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Dalty » November 2nd, 2016, 3:13 am

Trump into the lead in the popular polls and seemingly edging it in a couple of battleground states, according to the poll of polls this morning.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » November 2nd, 2016, 11:00 am

Well, now Adam54's just gonna think you're baiting him.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Adam54 » November 2nd, 2016, 1:53 pm

You mean to say he isn't?

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Dalty » November 2nd, 2016, 1:58 pm

I am being serious.

Trump won't win this election. But Clinton might lose it. And despite all these memes and other posts flooding social media it will have nothing to do with her bing a woman.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Adam54 » November 2nd, 2016, 3:48 pm

With respect, that's bullshit. Of course it's to do with her being a woman. Not exclusively, I can't make that argument, as she's certainly not without her flaws, but come on. People are looking at that monster, comparing him to her and coming to the conclusion of "Well, he probably assaulted a dozen women, but she deleted emails so they're just as bad."

What else could possibly be creating that false equivalency besides the fact that he's a man and she's a woman?

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Mal Shot First » November 2nd, 2016, 7:05 pm

Trevor Noah made the joke last night that the Weiner emails are the penis's last-ditch effort to prevent a woman from becoming President of the United States.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » November 2nd, 2016, 8:27 pm

Blaming a potential loss on sexism is a distant relative to blaming a potential loss on a fixed election. Saying the right is mostly against Clinton because she's female is a distant cousin to saying the left is only voting for Clinton because she's female. (Both assertions may be true for some individuals, but it's probably hasty to say it's true for most or all of either constituency.)

There absolutely is sexism on the right, but many on the right have tons of problems with Clinton specifically, and that may be causing people to engage in open sexism in a way they might not have if they had fewer specific problems with Clinton--in much the same way that people focus their insults on a fat person's fatness when that fat person does something they disapprove of. (Many on the left claim there is also plenty of sexism on the left. The so-called "Bernie Bros" were accused of sexism, after all.) It's probably good to get this out in the open, but it's still somewhat soul-sucking to see it.

A lot of Tea Party people, despite being dismissed as sexists/accused of sexism, were pretty invested in a Palin presidential candidacy, just as they had been invested in her when she was a candidate for vice president. And Ann Coulter still has a pretty strong following. Does this mean the Republicans, on the whole, are not sexist? Does this mean the Tea Partiers, more specifically, are not sextist? Not necessarily. ("We can't be sexists! We have female friends!") I think many on the right are happy to have women be part of the dialog and in plum positions as long as these women are drawing from a script they approve of. Because of this, there can still be sexism within the framework. There can still be racism and sexism within the Democratic framework, too, despite the Democrats having nominated a black man and a white woman to run for president under their party banner.

If it comes to a Which-party-is-less-racist-and-less-sexist? dick showing contest, the Democrats are probably going to win. Part of this could simply be because conservatism seeks to maintain the status quo, and it's still very much a caucasian patriarchy in the US--and it's still very much this despite the US having a black president. (Make no mistake: having a black president is a big deal. It's a start. Having a female president would also be a start. This doesn't necessarily mean Clinton would be the best option, but it would be its own big deal.) It's in the white man's best interests to keep things benefiting the white man. (Some things, it should be noted, may benefit the white man while seeming not to or while seeming to benefit someone other than the white man. I'm sure we can all cook up some pet examples. Like casinos on reservations.) Some argue, of course, that systemic racism isn't the exclusive playground of the right. Liberal-backed policies like equal opportunity and affirmative action are still pretty frequently painted as--and, to some on both sides, still feel like--the patronizing throwing down of bread crumbs. This can go beyond simple and wrong-headed arguments like "It's racist against whites!" and get into treating-symptoms-instead-of-the-disease arguments, creating-dependency arguments, puppeteering/electioneering arguments, et cetera. All this aside, many on the right are self-serving, raging fucking racists and sexists.

I'd've been interested to see how things would have shaken out if Warren had been the Democratic nominee. She might have given the right less ammunition, and the right might have been forced to focus more on her policy choices than on so many things outside of policy choices. If the right had advanced someone other than Trump, the left might have done the same. (If the right had advanced someone other than Trump, it would have been far clearer that the Republicans didn't give a shit what their Republican-supporting majority wanted. Things were closer with the Clinton/Sanders divide. The Democrats probably could have gotten away with fudging some details and intriguing if they'd wanted to. Some believe they did.)

The left's charge that the right only has the e-mails to complain about reminds me of the right's charge that the left only has Trump's having said "mean things" to complain about. Both nominees have clearly been criticized for way more than these two things. Many people on the right are hesitant to believe Trump is a rapist, just as many on the left are hesitant to believe that the Clinton campaign or Clinton did anything untoward on the DNC/CNN/Sanders suppression front. It remains unclear in both cases to what degree anything was done, and it's unfortunate that we're going into an election with these two big things unresolved. (When it comes to rape, some feel the accuser should be given the benefit of the doubt. Some feel the opposite should be the case. Whatever the case, rape and rape accusation are both serious fucking shit. Still--court of public opinion and potentially corrupted evidence and justice system aside--innocent-until-proven-guilty is still something our justice system and those who support it are supposed to strive for, and I'm not sure the trial has even started.) It's unfortunate that we may end up with a Republican president or Democratic president being put on trial while in office.

It's only natural that the supporters of both will look for ways to intellectualize their choices and will seek to confirm their bias. Equivocation and apologism happen a good bit, and both sides appeal to them often to try to spin it so that the allegedly bad things the other side said their candidates did are trivialized or dismissed entirely.

Comparing deleted e-mails to rape could be a false equivalency. It could depend for some on the content of the e-mails. It could depend, too, on what a supporter chooses to believe one or the other candidate did or didn't do. If the person who believes Trump didn't rape any women and that it's suspicious for these accusations to be happening so near an election also believes that Clinton had people murdered, caused people to die through her specific choices as a politician, and willfully obstructed the democratic process, that person is probably going to believe Clinton is the worse person and may also believe Clinton would be a worse president. If the person who believes that Clinton did nothing without the scope of democracy or her place within it also believes that Trump is a too-privileged serial rapist who constantly engaged in illicit business practices and mismanaged what might have been a far mightier empire, that person is probably going to believe Trump is the worse person and may also believe Trump would be a worse president.

Some of Trump's supporters may believe Trump is a rapist but may also feel a rapist is morally superior to a pro-choice proponent. Granted, it's not as though Clinton is abortion happy or thirsty for the blood of unborn babes. A pro-choice stance can be an incredibly complex stance that takes many socioeconomic factors and ethical questions incredibly seriously. Still, for the anti-abortion proponent, it may be seen as black-and-white.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » November 2nd, 2016, 8:40 pm

I think there's probably going to be some buyer's remorse regardless of which of the two wins. There will probably be more for Trump supporters if Trump wins than there will be for Clinton supporters if Clinton wins. (Well, unless you believe Russia's going to declare war if Clinton wins. Them's probably scare tactics. Same as the scare tactics that insist Trump's finger will immediately hit the red button.) Clinton will probably be unpopular, but she will probably also actually try to do the job. Trump, as far as I can tell, doesn't even want the job. It seems to me more like he just wants the exposure. He probably also wants the title, but I doubt he wants the work that comes with it. Like I've said before, the job comes with a bunch of reading, and I don't think he does much reading. I also don't think he could deal with the loss of personal freedoms.

I was chatting about this over Facebook with another Huffy Flouncer recently. (What follows, in fact, is some barely edited copypasta.) I can see either party pushing hard to have someone other than the incumbent run for the second term. This isn't entirely unprecedented. And it could lead to the incumbent being un-presidented. (Yeah. I know. I'm as ashamed as I should be.)

Historically, in the last forty years or so, whenever someone from the incumbent's party runs against the incumbent, it leads to the other side winning. I could be wrong about that, but I think it holds true, generally. Reagan ran against Ford. Ford kept the incumbent spot, but he lost the election. Same thing happened with Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter. Same thing happened with Bush I and Buchanan. All were challenged after their first term. All lost the general election and wound up with only one full term under their belts.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Dalty » November 3rd, 2016, 3:30 am

Trump, as an individual, is increasingly unimportant in this election. He is an incarnation of a mood, which has become a movement. This happened months ago, yet Clinton was until recently playing the man, and not the ball.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Dalty » November 3rd, 2016, 6:03 am

Adam54 wrote:With respect, that's bullshit.
OK, let me put it like this - JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I CANNOT BELEIVE THAT SOME PEOPLE STILL

DO

NOT

GET

IT!!!!

People are not voting FOR the orange baboon. People are voting AGAINST politicians and the establishment. And Clinton, pair of tits or not, has completely, totally and utterly failed to make the case for Liberal Democracy managed by professionals in any way.

I don't mean you, or just you. I mean everyone who sits there and says "I don't understand it, how could anyone support that monster?"

And then because they don't understand it their usual internal narrative takes over. "They must be sexist against Hilary, they must be closeted racists! They must be unspeakable people!" But they aren't. They are the protest. They are the brick through the window from those who are ignored. They are asking "Are you fucking listening now!?"

And America is behind the curve on this but catching up fast. Populist political factions are rising across the Western world. Austria, France, Merkel could well be out soon, as are the EU appointed technocrats in Greece and Italy.

And politicians, political commentators, the ruling classes, keen political observers etc. have still completely missed it. It's like they are completely oblivious. In the U.K. the single largest democratic mandate in UK political history chose to exit the EU and yet even today the Judiciary and elements of parliament in line with some very wealthy people combined to prevent the government triggering Article 50. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes 'Anti-Politicians' popular.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » November 3rd, 2016, 7:51 am

There's truth to that for many of the people voting. For many others, they're more than happy to have the establishment in place as long as they feel the establishment in place fully reflects their core values. If all branches of the government were run by the Democrats, many Democrats would think things were finally right and good. Likewise, if all branches were run by the Republicans, many Republicans would be extremely happy.

I suspect this would hold true even if fucked-up things were being done with fair regularity under a specific party's watch. For some, it would more than likely be a relationship similar to a Vatican/Catholic relationship. People will let the power that rules them get away with a great many injustices (and will even make excuses for that ruling power) as long as they believe both in that power's professed aims and in its sovereignty over them.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » November 3rd, 2016, 9:57 am

Russia's going to bomb us if Clinton wins, sure, but a number of sites are claiming that X percent (somewhere between twenty-seven and thirty-five, depending on the site) of government officials will quit if Trump wins. (Don't take my word for it if you don't wanna. Google it, and decide for yourself whether or not the hits take you to reputable sites.) So choose which scares you most, I guess, if fear's a strong motivator for you and if you choose to believe one or both of these things is more than a scare tactic.

Once fear's driving the vote, the system's probably broken. If the system's not broken, the people probably are. (Fake Strider?)

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Adam54 » November 3rd, 2016, 1:29 pm

Dalty wrote:
Adam54 wrote:With respect, that's bullshit.
OK, let me put it like this - JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I CANNOT BELEIVE THAT SOME PEOPLE STILL

DO

NOT

GET

IT!!!!

People are not voting FOR the orange baboon. People are voting AGAINST politicians and the establishment. And Clinton, pair of tits or not, has completely, totally and utterly failed to make the case for Liberal Democracy managed by professionals in any way.

I don't mean you, or just you. I mean everyone who sits there and says "I don't understand it, how could anyone support that monster?"

And then because they don't understand it their usual internal narrative takes over. "They must be sexist against Hilary, they must be closeted racists! They must be unspeakable people!" But they aren't. They are the protest. They are the brick through the window from those who are ignored. They are asking "Are you fucking listening now!?"

And America is behind the curve on this but catching up fast. Populist political factions are rising across the Western world. Austria, France, Merkel could well be out soon, as are the EU appointed technocrats in Greece and Italy.

And politicians, political commentators, the ruling classes, keen political observers etc. have still completely missed it. It's like they are completely oblivious. In the U.K. the single largest democratic mandate in UK political history chose to exit the EU and yet even today the Judiciary and elements of parliament in line with some very wealthy people combined to prevent the government triggering Article 50. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes 'Anti-Politicians' popular.
I don't think it's nearly as black and white as you believe it to be. PLENTY of people are voting for the baboon, just as plenty of otherwise reasonable people are voting for him as a "shake up the system" protest vote. He's just creating a white nationalist populist movement. Some are seeing him as an "outsider" hijacking the Republican party and they're certainly not wrong there.

But again, he's doing that under the basis of creating a white nationalist movement. A lot of people are voting for him on that basis. I'd guarantee Goiter personally knows several. I even know a couple up here in Liberalsota who are convinced he's doing the Lord's work.

There are also those who can't handle any woman in power, there are those who just can't handle THAT woman in power.

It's populism, you're absolutely correct. But you're wrong if you think the deplorable (sorry, Goits) undercurrent behind his brand of it isn't based in bigotry, racism, sexism, and every other vile "ism" you can imagine. There's a lot of horrible people out there who've felt stifled by an increasingly tolerant society and this is their last stand. They're the Republican base. Were it literally anybody else running for the Democrats, Trump would be polling at like 25%. But she's a Clinton and he's got an (R) next to his name, so the more sane conservatives are framing this as a protest vote. As a "we hate him, but we hate her more, so let's hold our noses and vote for Donald." Much as many Democrats are holding their noses and voting for Clinton in a similar fashion.

So yes, Fake Strider, wherever you are. It's both.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Adam54 » November 3rd, 2016, 1:35 pm

Among Trump supporters, 41% say they are voting FOR Trump while 54% say they're voting AGAINST Clinton.
56% of Clinton's supporters say they are voting FOR Clinton while 42% say they're voting AGAINST Trump.

So I guess it's not quite 50-50, but I'd read that as 41% have heard what he has to say, processed it, and said "yep! That's my guy!" while 54% are voting against the "establishment" and/or a woman and/or THAT woman.

Deplorable either way.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/cli ... nst-trump/

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » November 3rd, 2016, 1:39 pm

Can we really trust that FiveThirtyEight as a reliable source? I mean, c'mon, they didn't even predict that the Cubs would win the World Series!

Speaking of people I know, one of them posted this on Facebook earlier today:
Person Goits Knows wrote:Аnуоnе whоm dоеsn't likе mу орiniоns рlеаsе unfriеnd mе. I dоn't wаstе mу timе with оn trуing tо gеt ррl tо likе mе саusе I gоt а fаmilу thаt lоvеs mе. Unсоnditiоnаl nоt just whеn I'm а соnvinсе tо уоu. Wisdоm соmеs with аgе аnd it tооk mе аlоng timе tо figurе sоmе things оut. Thе subjесt I wаs bеst аt in sсhооl wаs histоrу аlwауs lоvеd it аnd mаdе А's in histоrу. Likе thе sауing histоrу rереаts its sеlf is truе. Аbоut 5 уrs аgо I stаrtеd rеаllу gеtting intо роlitiсs аnd thе wау оut соuntrу is hеаding. It shоuld tеrrifу реорlе. Уеt it dоеsn't аll thеу саrе аbоut is if thеу саn gеt sоmе wееd lеgаlizаtiоn sоmе frее hеаlthсаrе thаt is сurrеntlу а сlustеrFuсk раrdоn mу lаnguаgе аnd ррl will rеgrеt. Оr thinking уоu саn gеt frее соllеgе аll thеsе hаndоuts. Аll thеsе hаndоuts is wе wе'rе brоkе аnd Сhinа оwns us. Thе gоvеrnmеnt wаsn't built tо рrоvidе fоr us. Tо suрроrt us. Tо bе invоlvеd in еvеr аsресt оf оur livеs. This whоlе thing wе саll оur gоvеrnmеnt hаs gоttеn wау оuttа hаnd аnd nееds tо bе hit with а wrесking bаll аnd rеbuilt. Thаt's whу trumр wаs sо рорulаr nоt bесаusе оf rасism likе thе mеdiа triеd tо mаkе it bесаusе оf hоw siсk оf реорlе аrе оf thе gоvеrnmеnt. А mаn thаt's nеvеr hеld оffiсе соuld bе рrеsidеnt in 6 dауs оr а wоmаn thаt's bееn in роlitiсs fоr 30 уrs аnd liеd timе аnd timе аgаin. Bееn undеr FBI сriminаl invеstigаtiоns. I соuld gо оn аnd оn. Trumр is а riсh аhоlе thаt undеrstаnds hоw mоnеу wоrks аnd hоw tо nеgоtiаtе with роwеrful реорlе. Аnd simрlу wаnts kеер thе bаd ррl оut аnd thе mоnеу in this соuntrу. lоl аnd реорlе think thаt's bаd. Wеll уоur idiоts if уоu think thаt's bаd. Gо kiсk rосks аnd dеlеtе mе right nоw if уоu gоt а рrоblеm with thаt. Саusе I рrоbаblу gо оff thе grid in а wееk аnуwауs.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Adam54 » November 3rd, 2016, 2:11 pm

So there's one for anarachy and against education.

But Nate Silver is a golden god. How dare you question him!

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Mal Shot First » November 3rd, 2016, 4:37 pm

Adam54 wrote: I don't think it's nearly as black and white as you believe it to be. PLENTY of people are voting for the baboon, just as plenty of otherwise reasonable people are voting for him as a "shake up the system" protest vote. He's just creating a white nationalist populist movement. Some are seeing him as an "outsider" hijacking the Republican party and they're certainly not wrong there.

But again, he's doing that under the basis of creating a white nationalist movement. A lot of people are voting for him on that basis. I'd guarantee Goiter personally knows several. I even know a couple up here in Liberalsota who are convinced he's doing the Lord's work.

There are also those who can't handle any woman in power, there are those who just can't handle THAT woman in power.

It's populism, you're absolutely correct. But you're wrong if you think the deplorable (sorry, Goits) undercurrent behind his brand of it isn't based in bigotry, racism, sexism, and every other vile "ism" you can imagine. There's a lot of horrible people out there who've felt stifled by an increasingly tolerant society and this is their last stand. They're the Republican base. Were it literally anybody else running for the Democrats, Trump would be polling at like 25%. But she's a Clinton and he's got an (R) next to his name, so the more sane conservatives are framing this as a protest vote. As a "we hate him, but we hate her more, so let's hold our noses and vote for Donald." Much as many Democrats are holding their noses and voting for Clinton in a similar fashion.

So yes, Fake Strider, wherever you are. It's both.
Adam's got a point here. One other reason I don't buy the protest vote argument is that the Republican base had other non-establishment candidates they could have rallied behind. Neither Carly Fiorina nor Ben Carson belong to the Washington elite. Fiorina is a businesswoman (and not any less inept at business than Trump), so the people who have a hard-on for Trump because of his business savvy could have found the same appeal in her. Carson was a respected neurosurgeon and is a bestselling author, and he comes off as being just as eccentric as Trump. If this presidential race were all about voting for the anti-establishment candidates, then Trump wouldn't have been the only choice for Republicans. The reason he stood out is precisely the hate speech he's been spouting since the moment he announced his candidacy.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by neglet » November 3rd, 2016, 4:46 pm

I also wouldn't discount the power of his brand and his popularity as a reality TV star. Susceptible ignoramuses think the guy is a successful businessman and leader from watching his show; then he began preaching his vague promises and not-so-vague threats and voila!

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Adam54 » November 3rd, 2016, 5:46 pm

You both make very good points. I hadn't even thought about Carson or Fiorina as the outsiders but that's absolutely correct.

Instead of the black man or the white woman as outsiders, they picked the famous guy who based his candidacy in hatred for everyone who isn't a straight white male.

If it's not because his base is a truly bigoted/racist/xenophobic group of people....why?

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The Swollen Goiter of God
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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God » November 3rd, 2016, 6:19 pm

There are tons of truly bigoted, racist, xenophobic people who haven't managed to leverage that into a successful bid for the presidency. There's Cruz. There was once Strom Thurmond and George Wallace. And there are some pretty loathsome people still on the political scene like David Duke.

Trump probably got where he got thanks to a perfect storm of things. Trump's presidential candidacy has an air of the pyramid scheme to it. People think he is rich, and they think they can get rich, themselves, by supporting him. Of course, the guy at the top of the pyramid stays at the top of the pyramid and doesn't give a shit about the rows and rows of bodies stacked beneath him, and those at the bottom are crushed under the oppressive weight of all the bodies above them.

I feel like Trump was the guy made to exemplify both obscene wealth and the generic US business tycoon when I was a kid. I didn't know he existed before I moved to the US, but as soon as I got here, I was made aware of his brand. The adults around me and the kids I knew would all use his name as a kind of shorthand. It was Einstein or Sherlock if you were talking smarts ("Lookit Einstein over here!"), Shakespeare if you were talking mastery of the English language ("It's not Shakespeare, but it gets the point across!"), and Trump if you were talking wealth/success ("I'm no Donald Trump, but I do all right for myself!").

I feel like using Trump's name to that end lessened a lot as soon as the computer billionaires came on the scene. Bill Gates's wealth so eclipsed Trump's in the nineties that I just sort of assumed for a long time that Trump's brand was dead or that he was a has-been. (Gates's wealth continues to eclipse Trump's.) I also remembered hearing about Trump's bankruptcies, shrugging my shoulders, and figuring Trump had just become one of the many cautionary tales.

Growing up with a father who was a business-degree-holding schemer probably fed into this. He was always trying increasingly goofy-seeming ways to get rich and was also often dealing with financial woes. He declared bankruptcy at least once. He may have done it twice. He was always either the richest guy I knew or the poorest. (Of course, when you're a white male with a business degree, a yacht, and a Rolodex full of contacts, you're never poor the way real poor people are poor.)

I came to see Trump as something like my father in macrocosm--minus the lower-middle-class upbringing and Army Rangering. I saw the two as exemplary of Boethian Wheel grabber who holds on too long. I'd totally written him off, to be honest.

The Apprentice happened, and I continued to write him off, but the few clips I saw of the show gave me more of an idea of the kind of guy he was. He seemed whiny and arrogant and more like a poor man's idea of a rich man than an actual rich man. He seemed almost like a book character or a parody of a real person. Then he grabbed a bigger and bigger social media presence, and I was reminded more and more of how important the idea of wealth is to so much of the US. Most of the people of the US have been raised in a capitalist system. They're indoctrinated into believing that wealth is power, wealth is influence, and wealth is success. (Most twists on the Christian religion try to argue otherwise, but it doesn't seem to matter. Capitalism trumps religion, here, in the minds of many whose heads are full of both. Maybe Jesus and/or the writers of the New Testament shouldn't have gone with the line about how it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. It gives some of those who subscribe to the teachings of the New Testament the impression that they can still enter if they're just really, really good people despite being wealthy. It gives them the impression that it's probably more a warning for that other rich guy.) I also came to learn that some corner of the country either hadn't written him off as I had or had once written him off but had allowed The Apprentice to convince them to pencil him back in.

The guy's a bad businessman and a bad person with what appears to be far less wealth than he actually claims to have, but I guess ideas of his wealth and business acumen were so deeply ingrained in so many people for so long that they were ready to re-embrace it once he came back into the limelight. If he does wind up winning the race, some part of it will likely be due to the appealingness of his rhetoric and hate speech, but it'll also be due in part to this idea of his being a successful businessman with good ideas who "gets things done." It'll probably also be due to his being perceived as a political outsider. It'll probably also be due in part to his being the Big Two candidate with a penis. It'll probably also be due in part to people wanting their vote to be one against Clinton. It'll probably also be due in part to successful attempts by the right-leaning mainstream media to paint the other choices as dangerous choices.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Mal Shot First » November 4th, 2016, 6:54 am

The Swollen Goiter of God wrote:There are tons of truly bigoted, racist, xenophobic people who haven't managed to leverage that into a successful bid for the presidency. There's Cruz.
And, not surprisingly, Cruz ended up being Trump's strongest competitor during the primaries even though he's not a Washington outsider. Had it not been for Trump, Cruz may have actually gotten the nomination. Trump's showmanship and willingness to shout the bigotry and hatred at the top of his lungs was what carried him to victory there and is still keeping him afloat.

I still don't buy that a vote for Trump is primarily a vote for a non-establishment candidate.

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Re: The Batshit Crazy Republicans Roundup

Post by Adam54 » November 4th, 2016, 7:24 am

Neither do I. That's 10% of it, tops. The rest is bigotry and hatred.

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