Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 28th, 2016, 10:50 am

Dany and Jon are related, last night confirmed.

I am presuming that Varys' quick trip means Dany's fleet will be allowed to land in Dorne?

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Adam54 » June 28th, 2016, 1:21 pm

How do we know they're related? I thought Sunday only confirmed who his mother was.

I was confused by Varys and his magical time travel skills as well.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 28th, 2016, 2:53 pm

His mother was not some whore in the South, she was Ned's sister. The father was Targereyan I thought, hence the whole "If Robert finds out..." and the choice of guards at the tower. It may have been more implied than implicit though. It was all a bit of a blur!

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Adam54 » June 28th, 2016, 3:17 pm

So he and Dany share a dad? Or is it some other Targareyan?

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Scotia » June 28th, 2016, 3:29 pm

Dalty wrote:His mother was not some whore in the South, she was Ned's sister. The father was Targereyan I thought, hence the whole "If Robert finds out..." and the choice of guards at the tower. It may have been more implied than implicit though. It was all a bit of a blur!
Ok. I get that Snow is now of noble blood. That his mother was Lyanna Stark and his father Rhegar Targarian. This probably makes him the next in line for the crown of Westeros. I just wonder how this will come to be. We know it now as the audience but all those who witnessed the child's birth are probably dead. He could be christened thru fire like Danni I suppose. Makes for an interesting season seven for sure.

Just an aside here. I don't know how much influence George R.R. Martin has had this season since I zip thru opening credits for every epi, but damn, this season was the most satisfying yet. Just the way events played out and old scores got settled was so gratifying. It's going to make for one hell of a confusing read if the man ever published the next in the series. George likes to give but mostly take. Sansa never grew a pair until this series and Danii always had some obstacle in her path. All the threads are being pulled right now and I wonder if Martin is happy about it?

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Scotia » June 28th, 2016, 3:30 pm

Adam54 wrote:So he and Dany share a dad? Or is it some other Targareyan?
I think Jon and Danaries are cousins. Jons father would be her older brother. I think

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by neglet » June 28th, 2016, 8:43 pm

Scotia wrote:
Adam54 wrote:So he and Dany share a dad? Or is it some other Targareyan?
I think Jon and Danaries are cousins. Jons father would be her older brother. I think
That makes her his aunt.

As far as Martin's input, I hear the producers consult pretty closely with him. And I think the rumor is that they convinced him to sell the rights to them by correctly guessing who Jon Snow's mother was.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 28th, 2016, 8:47 pm

The Swollen Goiter of God wrote:Well, I guess Jon Snow is king. This would probably mean more to me if I'd ever seen any of the show.
Well, there were five kings at one point during the war, so it doesn't mean much to be called a king in Westeros.
Adam54 wrote:Jon Snow will marry Dany and that will just be that, right? They can rule happily ever after?
Targaryens are known for marrying within the family, after all.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Adam54 » June 28th, 2016, 9:01 pm

I honestly have no memory of it being revealed his father was a Targaryen. When did that come up?

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 28th, 2016, 9:09 pm

Lyanna eloped with Rhaegar (or was kidnapped by him, depending on whether you ask Robert and Ned). It was strongly implied that the child was Rhaegar's, and the cut transition from the child's face to Jon's in the last episode implied that he is the child.

It's one of the more popular fan theories that seems to be confirmed now by the show. Google "R+L=J."

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 29th, 2016, 5:00 am

So that makes him Dany's half brother and strong contender for the iron throne above Dany's.... however that line passed to the Baratheon's after the rebellion, which after a quite frankly terrible track record of child protection in House Baratheon leaves Cersei in the hot seat. His claim is no greater than Dany's. Which is to say based on being a bit pissed off that Rob's rebellion was successful.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 29th, 2016, 5:15 am

Rhaegar was the son of the Mad King, which makes him Dany's older brother (an adult when Dany and Viserys were still children). He was killed by Robert at the Battle of the Trident during Robert's Rebellion.

That would make Jon Dany's nephew, as Negs already said. Both of their claims to the Iron Throne would stem from the perspective that Robert was a usurper who took down a dynasty that ruled Westeros for 300 years. In Dany's mind, at least, her claim to the throne is stronger than that of Cersei's children, since none of them is actually Robert's offspring.

Robert himself was Rhaegar's second cousin, so excluding Viserys and Dany, Robert was next in line for the Iron Throne via grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen (which is why he was trying to have the Targaryen children killed throughout his reign, since their claims were stronger than his).

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 29th, 2016, 8:53 am

Here's a Targaryen family tree, if it helps:
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rh ... n#Siblings

Aerys II is the Mad King; Rhaelle was one of his aunts and the grandmother of Robert Baratheon.

Notice that Lyanna and Jon aren't part of this family tree because it follows the book canon, where it wasn't confirmed (as far as I remember) that Lyanna had a child. It was alluded to, but never stated outright.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 29th, 2016, 11:41 am

Right, got it. Though Rhaegar was the mad kind for a moment. D'oh!!

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 29th, 2016, 12:10 pm

It's a big deal for Ned as well. His one embarrassment / major flaw, that he did the dirty on his wife that begat a bastard, actually turns out to be him doing something else unbelievably honourable. He let his wife think the worst of him and carried a shame that wasn't his for his honour and his promise to his sister. It's moving stuff.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Scotia » June 29th, 2016, 5:04 pm

If memory serves Varys dies at the end of the last book. At lest that's the assumption we are given. His little birds attack him in his studio or something.

Any body else dead or alive in the books that aren't in the show?

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 29th, 2016, 8:29 pm

It's not Varys who dies.

SPOILER: In the books, Varys doesn't make his way to Essos the way he does in the show. He simply disappears at the same time that Tyrion disappears, but we don't see him again until the last book. Toward the end of it, he shows up in King's Landing and kills Grandmaester Pycelle and then sends a message to Kevan Lannister to come see the Grandmaester. When Kevan Lannister shows up, Varys kills him, too, because he sees him as a competent politician who could actually be able to reverse a lot of the bad policies that Cersei introduced.

Here are some characters who are dead in one version and not in the other (more spoilers ahead):
Barristan Selmy (book: alive; show: dead)
Hizdahr zo Loraq (book: alive; show: dead)
Doran Martell (book: alive; show: dead)
Myrcella Baratheon (book: alive; show: dead)
Tommen Baratheon (book: alive; show: dead)
Brynden "the Blackfish" Tully (book: alive; show: dead)
Walder Frey (book: alive; show: dead)
Hodor (book: alive; show: dead)
Jojen Reed (book: alive; show: dead)
Catelyn Stark (book: alive*; show: dead[?])
Sandor "the Hound" Clegane (book: dead[?]; show: alive)
Ramsay Bolton (book: alive; show: dead)
Roose Bolton (book: alive; show: dead)
Margaery Tyrell (book: alive; show: dead)
Loras Tyrell (book: alive; show: dead)
The High Sparrow (book: alive; show: dead)
Lancel Lannister (book: alive; show: dead)
Osha (book: alive; show: dead)
Rickon Stark (book: alive; show: dead)
Jon Snow (book: dead{?]; show: alive)

There are probably more, but I can't think of any right now.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 30th, 2016, 1:11 am

But isn't most of that list due to the show now being ahead of the books?

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Adam54 » June 30th, 2016, 6:01 am

That's what I was thinking.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 30th, 2016, 8:50 am

Some of those characters would have to be excluded based on the fact that the show's plot progressed beyond the point of the plot from the books. However, the season that just ended incorporated material from the books that was previously left out, so the timelines don't necessarily align between the books and the show. Below is the list from above edited to take into account the progression of the show beyond the timeline of the books.

Barristan Selmy - Book: In charge of Mereen during Dany's absence. Show: Died in an attack by the Sons of the Harpy.
Hizdahr zo Loraq - Book: Captured by Selmy and his council, but not killed. Show: Died during Drogon's attack in the fighting pit.
Doran Martell - Book: Involved in plotting the return of the Targaryens to the Iron Throne (attempting to arrange marriage of his son to Dany). Show: Killed by Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. Ellaria negotiates with Varys instead.
Myrcella Baratheon - Book: Ear cut off in an attempt on her life in Dorne. Show: Poisoned by Ellaria on her way back home.
Brynden "the Blackfish" Tully - Book: Escapes through the underwater passages during the Lannister/Frey takeover of Riverrun. Show: Killed during the Lannister/Frey takeover of Riverrun.
Jojen Reed - Book: Alive with Bran and Meera in the cave of the three-eyed crow. Show: Died upon arrival at the cave of the three-eyed crow.
Catelyn Stark - Book: Died at the Red Wedding, but resurrected by the Brotherhood Without Banners (using a red priest's magic) and going by the alias Lady Stoneheart. Show: Died at the Red Wedding and hasn't returned.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 30th, 2016, 10:45 am

My supposition for the end of all this:

Next season. Winter worsens as the backdrop to the battle for the Throne between Lannister, Stark and Targaryen. Many dead, armies weakened. Finally the harshest winter freezes the sea so the Walkers can breach around the end of the wall.

Final season. The remnants struggle to unite to face the Walker threat. They lose. Final shot is the Night King on the Iron Throne.

Moral being all this pathetic fighting between themselves made them lose focus on the real threat and now they have reaped what they sowed.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 30th, 2016, 2:43 pm

My prediction: pain.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 30th, 2016, 3:36 pm

2nd round knockout?

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mal Shot First » June 30th, 2016, 4:02 pm

I doubt Jon Snow will get up for a third round.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty » June 30th, 2016, 4:16 pm

Did he dodge those arrows/be battlefield bulletproof a bit at the Battle of the Bastards? Maybe he now can't die? Or was he just one lucky sonofabitch?

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