The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

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The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

I'm starting one. This is it.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

Oooooooh! Where to start?

Not perfect. But a solid, solid Star Wars movie. So far removed from the prequels in every way. If Empire was 100% and ANH was 90%, ROTJ was 75% and TPM was 40%. ROTS was maybe 30% and AOTC was 25% tops.

Then I would put this at 75% too, maybe 80%.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Instead of writing a review, I'm just going to copy, collect, paste, and tweak some texts I sent to friends on Facebook Messenger:

It's a solid start to a new series. It's a good mix of drama, action, and humor. I don't think the people who like this one are going to have to engage in the same kind of apologetics as prequel fans.

The new faces acquit themselves well enough. Seriously. Not a bad performance among them, I don't think. No repeat of the Lloyd/Christensen situation.

I like that Finn holds and swings Luke's saber like a bat. I like that he's visibly terrified when he fights Kylo Ren. It adds a sense of peril absent in the prequels (but present in the original trilogy).

I like Han's amusement with Chewie's bowcaster. It suggests that Chewie has never been hurt in battle before and that Han's never had occasion to try Chewie's weapon out. It tells its own little story.

I like that Kylo Ren's turn is what split up the old gang. I like that he's not calculating and Vader-esque. He's a fanboy and a hothead, and he's rough around the edges.

I knew somebody big would be toast by the end of the movie, and I'd been assuming--thanks to knowing Ford's feelings on his character's original arc--that it would be Solo. He's also the oldest of the returning cast members, so it makes sense from an insurance and logistical point of view. It's probably not how I'd have killed him, but it works for the narrative. It works for helping Kylo Ren edge closer to the Dark Side. (For the record, I probably would have had Han plow the Millennium Falcon into something. I always sort of figured he'd go down with his ship. It seems wrong on some level for it to go on without him.)

The onus is now on Rian Johnson to make the next episode a little less structurally reverent to the original trilogy. Disney can't expect to pull the same trick twice and keep fans (both rabid and casual) on their side.

I was pretty groggy for it. We had to keep Jubboiter up late and wake her up early for her EEG. It was on the same day as my viewing. I ended up not sleeping much at all. That's a pretty common thing, but I think the emotional exhaustion of the EEG kept me from being to give myself over to it fully. There was also a noisy and distracting guy sitting right next to me. He was a veritable Ric Olie. Kept just telling the audience what was happening on the screen. I want to go back and see it again, and he's a big part of the reason why.

I was by myself, too, so I was too paranoid to go get myself a drink and a filling meal. I didn't want to lose my spot thanks to a bathroom trip.

I was in pole position, which was pretty cool. Got there before anyone else in my time group. Got to enter the theater first and have my pick of seats. Probably a first for a Star Wars movie.

I'm not sure if I'll like it more or less on a second viewing. I guess I'll find out, and I'll see over time if it sticks for me as an experience.

I'm also not sure where I'd place it. I need to see it again. I'll default to saying I feel it's definitely better than any of the prequel entries. I'll also say there's no way it's touching Empire Strikes Back's spot. That shit's been locked in since before I could cum.

The biggest complaint people seem to have with it is that it feels too much like a retread of A New Hope to them. That didn't really bother me.

I was made to wonder how else they could have done it. If it had felt too different, people might have found it off-putting. Disney has a lot riding on this first one. I'm sure they felt doing it the way they did it would make it come closer to feeling like a fitting reentry into the world for the majority of viewers. (It occurs to me that most people aren't like us. They haven't seen the originals so many times that they've memorized the scripts backwards and forwards. It's unlikely they'll recognize callbacks to lines like "You hear me, baby? Hold together.") Again, this makes it so that Episode VIII has to do more to find its own footing.

In the case of some of the people harping on the excessive nodding, I suspect they're wary of being on the wrong side of history and are looking for something specific to be critical of in case the tide of public opinion turns. Just in some of the people's cases. I'm sure there are those out there who are genuinely bothered by all the nods and who weren't able to enjoy their viewing experience because of it. It's a testament to how deep a scar the prequels left. That most people are able to enjoy the new one despite the nods is a testament to... I don't know. To something. To the competence of the team involved, I guess. This movie always had an uphill battle to fight. It's a minor miracle that--for the time being, at least--Star Wars is cool again. It's cool again, and it's thanks to more than the strength of (and affection for) the IP. It's thanks to a stellar marketing job, sure, but the major marketing phase is over. The Force Awakens is now in the position of living or dying on the strength of positive word-of-mouth and repeat business. My gut feeling is that it will get a lot of both of these.

I take it some don't buy the slide into obscurity of the Jedi. I can buy it. We bought it for A New Hope, after all. I think it comes closer to working if you buy into the alternate universe development of technology and societal prioritization. You sort of have to, on some level, to buy the idea of a small team running around on a military base and futzing with equipment without getting picked up by any internal surveillance/video feed. That, too, happens in both A New Hope and The Force Awakens. It also comes closer to working when you consider a first world country citizen's access to info and tech versus a third-world country citizen's access to the same info and tech. Or even a different first-world country citizen's access. Or even someone of a lower caste within the first-world country. Whatever the case, if you're willing to buy that a technologically advanced society could spring up and care more about travel and trade than recording events for posterity, it may play better for you.

It may work less well if you keep the prequels in mind, since Lucas made a point of introducing both the concept of a giant library and the concept of recorded surveillance feed. It's clear this movie doesn't want you to think too much about (or of) the prequels, though. And good riddance.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Two things I forgot to mention: (1) none of the new John Williams music really left that big an impression; I missed the instantly hummable standout themes I've come to expect, (2) nice closing shot.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Space Tycoon »

Oh God I should be avoiding this thread like cheap whiskey.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

What are you talking about? Cheap whiskey was one of this thread's first visitors!
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mango »

I really want a Poe/Finn buddy 'cop' movie now. Despite a minor amount of screen time together they had a fun bromance.

I agree that the nodding back to ANH didn't bother me much, except that the bits referenced it felt a bit bloated. Over all the pacing felt a tad off, a bit front heavy with the action and not enough build up to the final mission. Maybe it's just me. A couple friends complained that it began on a desert planet, but i'm just happy it wasn't on tattooine. Let the galaxy breath. Hope to God Hoth never shows up again.

And I also liked all the new guys. Finn was a pretty cool character, I liked that he felt competent yet outclassed at the same time. Rey was a bit off the mark, being more straight-froward action girl instead of gaining any real insight...but I feel that's to come in Episode eight. BB-8 won me over completely with the thumbs-up/lighter moment.
Kylo Ren was creepy. I'm not sure if it's because I grew up with Vader and played with his action figure, but the man never scared me. Big and imposing? Yes. Scary? Not so much. Kylo Ren was just creepy; I loved his outbursts, they made him feel unhinged and extra-dangerous.

My real, biggest complaint was Chewie snubbing Leia at the end. I mean he's a hugger, he just went through some serious shit, and he just walks past Leia like "Bitch, wish you'd given me a medal now?"

More thoughts later, I seem to be tired and making a lot of typing mistakes. Even for me.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

My favourite character in this, with out doubt, was Chewie. Every time he was on the screen I was grinning from ear to ear. He had most of the best lines and most of the best moments.

"YOU'RE cold?" was one of my favourites. As was the whole Finn/sickbay scene and the nurse at the resistance base. And after the big moment with Kylo and Han when Chewie basically goes apeshit like "I am not having this!" I genuinely thought we were going to see him pull somebody's arm out of their socket.

Keeping Threepio as a cameo was a wise move as the prequels showed too much Threepio is a bad thing.

One thing that really stood out is that a 2ft high beach ball showed more emotion and character than almost the entire cast of the prequels.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

I have some questions. I don't fully understand the Resistance / Republic dynamic. The Resistance are funded by the Republic to help keep the First Order contained in the Outer Rim??

Was that Coruscant that was destroyed? Does this mean the Resistance is now unfounded and unsupported and on its own? Back pre-ANH square one?
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

Fun fact : the stormtrooper who Rey mind-tricks is Daniel Craig.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mango »

My theory on the resistance is thus:

(and this is based solely on me and friends BSing after the film and no sources beyond film to go on)

There is direct reference to the Outer Rim, thus signifying an Inner Rim that is likely the galactic-not-a-ghetto. The Republic is busy trying to pull itself togather and govern all the messy bureaucratic bull that is required for the Inner Rim to survive. Meanwhile on the Outer Rim, The First Order has rose up like a Harlem Shogun and is massing to make its move. So some of the more action oriented politicians went Outside and set up a resistance. The Republic can't afford to mass a real army to send to help, but they can acknowledge and funnel help to the Resistance.

Basically, The First Order is not in control, but they will soon have the power to take it. The republic is in control but has little real power and money. So instead they send cash and guns to support the freedom fighters, hoping TFO doesn't make it to where the rich people live.

Also, I had forgotten about the doctor. That was hilarious, She can be in the Finn/Poe buddy flick.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

So did Starkiller, erm, kill Coruscant?
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Could be. Hard to say. Didn't see a "Now Entering Coruscant" sign anywhere. If you can have two desert planets, I guess you can have two city planets.

Look at some of the weird-ass shit Harry says about The Force Awakens:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/74026
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

Yeah - I saw that. And chose a fan art/wank pic as his intro. It was a bizarre read that was hard to follow at the best of times.

I still want more answers re: the Republic. Msunyata did a good overview of the books and comics that gave the story from ROTJ up to TFA. I also think they probably took a conscious decision to avoid going into too much detail given the reaction to the political content of the Prequels.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Space Tycoon »

I saw TFA today and was very impressed. Not perfect, but damn good.

I heard the named Holnian System or something? When the Starkiller fired on those planets. Maybe Coruscant is New York, and these ones are Chicago or LA.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

It's funny that the words "not perfect" are very common in relation to this movie. I can't remember the last "perfect" thing I saw.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Space Tycoon »

Dalty wrote:I can't remember the last "perfect" thing I saw.
Salma Hayek in Dusk Till Dawn. Boom.

It's a natural reaction to a movie that is enveloped in so much overwhelming hype it runs the risk of inhibiting any serious criticism. We've seen this before.

Hey look, I loved it. Will probably see it a couple more times in the coming weeks.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Space Tycoon »

One thing that sticks with me is the 3-D. Very effective.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

Really? I made a point of seeing it in 2D.

Second viewing in 3D???
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Space Tycoon »

Absolutely. There's this scene where a Star Destroyer(or whatever they're now called) is just coming out of the damn screen.

Little kids in front of me were reaching out to grab it.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

Might be a perfect excuse to see it again.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Space Tycoon »

Like we need one.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Mango »

Take this with grains of salt.

The system destroyed is the Hosnian system, the current seat of the new republic.

Apparently the TFA visual dictionary gives more information about it. It states that after the fall of the empire the seat of the new republic was moved to Chandrila (Mon Mothma's home world) and then the seat would rotate based on votes every so often. This is all flagged as 'canon' on wookieepedia, so that's my only real source.

The destruction of the Hosnian system is one of my few complaints about the movie. It didn't feel like much of a lead up, and I had little connection to it. In fact, being a fan means I also was asking "Wait, is that Coruscant?". Overall I like the change of venues, and introduction of new locations, but given the minor time spent on the planet it seems like it would have been way more effective had they simply left it as Coruscant.
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Jubbers »

Space Tycoon wrote:One thing that sticks with me is the 3-D. Very effective.
Image
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Re: The Force Awakens: Spoiler Thread

Post by Dalty »

Precisely Mango, no sense of loss or of First Order evil-ness because we don't know anything about what is being lost.
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