Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

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We once roamed the vast forums of Corona Coming Attractions. Some of us had been around from The Before Times, in the Days of Excelsior, while others of us had only recently begun our trek. When our home became filled with much evil, including the villainous Cannot-Post-in-This-Browser and the dreaded Cannot-Log-In, we flounced away most huffily to this new home away from home. We follow the flag of Jubboiter and talk about movies, life, the universe, and everything, often in a most vulgar fashion. All are welcome here, so long as they do not take offense to our particular idiom.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Dalty »

So here's a serious question. Have US rabid Christians always been like this, or have they got this way because of the threat they perceive from militant Islam?
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

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Why not both?
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Corporal_Hicks »

Bananarama's Bouncy Bits wrote:So here's a serious question. Have US rabid Christians always been like this, or have they got this way because of the threat they perceive from militant Islam?
No, although the media would like you to believe that to be true.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

My maternal family has definitely gotten worse. My grandparents and aunt and stepfather are far more antagonistic about a lot of things than they were in the eighties or early nineties. I don't know that this is true for the rest of the country, but it's at least true for my family. They've become absolutists. They weren't before. Everything they believe is the right thing to believe. To entertain any other beliefs is to let Satan and the Media dictate your thoughts for you.

My mother's still willing to consider other points of view. She's spent more time abroad than others in my maternal family, but I can't say with certainty that this has anything to do with anything. She and my aunt have all the same degrees, so education doesn't appear to be a factor. Then again, different people receive and process their educations in different ways.

When my grandmother was in her forties and fifties, I remember her being fairly open-minded. She would always tell me to consider things from multiple angles, and she was never quick to condemn someone with a different worldview. If she was, she didn't do it openly. At some point in the mid nineties, she and my grandfather both began to be vocally racist. It started with black people. It didn't really extend to Mexicans (all Hispanics, really, though as far as they were concerned, all Hispanics were Mexican) until the late nineties.

Our little corner of Alabama had been all-white up until then. I was in a 100% white graduating class. After I graduated, Hispanic people began to move in. My mother tells me Crossville's graduating classes have been about half white/half Hispanic the past couple years. She's the assistant principal at Crossville High School.

So, anyway, xenophobia among whites in Crossville, Alabama has been pretty rampant ever since the town's population ceased being 100% white. Or, rather, it has seemed to me to be pretty rampant. I've heard a lot of people say a lot of awful things.

Racism toward black people already existed in Crossville when I moved there in '87. I didn't hear any of it from my grandparents back then, but I heard it from kids at school. I had gone to integrated preschools and schools in South Carolina and Germany, so I'd never really heard any of it. I didn't know any of the stereotypes. I first encountered the stereotypes from Crossville classmates. It was... kinda bizarre. They'd make a joke playing on a stereotype, and I wouldn't get it. They'd call me stupid and explain to me why it was funny. ("You know, because blacks love fried chicken and watermelon." "I guess. Doesn't everybody love fried chicken and watermelon?") It just didn't make sense to me. Most of them had never even met a black person. There were some black families living in Collinsville (about ten miles from Crossville), but as far as I know, the only time they ever encountered any of them was when/if they went to Trade Day. (Trade Day is an open-air market hosted on Collinsville's fair grounds every Saturday. It's the biggest thing of its kind in the area.)

Here's something weird: I didn't have any knowledge of Jewish stereotypes until I started seeing them pop up in movies. Crossville apparently has no problem with Jews. There aren't any Jews to speak of in Crossville, but there aren't any Black people, either. I'm not even sure if there were any back the antebellum days. Crossville has always been a poor farming town. I don't think there were any plantations nearby. The land's not all that fertile. It's all right for corn, grass, and livestock, but it's no good for cotton. Crossville *is* part of Sand Mountain, on the other hand, and Sand Mountain is listed on this site as being a "Sundown Town." I've been told by old-timers that there used to be signs up in Crossville warning Black people not to come into town, but I've never seen any pictures or real evidence of these signs, so I don't know for sure.

Anyway, racism and xenophobia in Crossville seemed to grow worse and worse the older I got--especially among older people. After 11 September 2001, there was a sharp shift in focus. Racism toward black people and Mexicans was still there, but it was more of an eye-rolling, annoyed kind of racism. The frothing-at-the-mouth racism was reserved for Muslims. It wasn't toward Radical Islam. It was toward all Muslims. The reasoning was that the Koran made it so that all Muslims were radical, kill-the-infidel sorts. You couldn't be a follower of Mohammed and *not* be ready to sacrifice yourself and others to the cause. Both my grandmother and grandfather have said this to me. Before 11 September 2001, Muslims were just people of a different religion. I was told that the Koran, like the Book of Mormon, was just more proof of Christ's divinity. My grandmother was even sympathetic toward non-Christians during the Crusades. This is no longer the case.

Blatant and unapologetic racism toward black people has grown increasingly vocal in Crossville since Obama became president. I see frequent evidence of this on Facebook.

Granted, there weren't many people from Crossville on Facebook in Facebook's earlier days. Almost all the people on Facebook in 2006 were currently in--or had recently graduated from--college. It wasn't until Facebook made registration available to anyone with an e-mail address that a lot of people from Crossville signed on. It could be that I'm correlating seeing a rise in open racism toward blacks with Obama's presidency simply because it was around the time Obama began his first presidential race that a lot of people from Crossville signed on to Facebook for the first time.

Again, I don't know if it is this way for the rest of the country. It does appear that it's this way for the majority of the people I know from Crossville. It's this way pretty much across the board for people over, say, sixty. The kids aren't as bad.The kids graduating from Crossville these days were in school with a fair number of Mexican-American students. They also grew up with the Internet, so they've had more access to other cultures.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Dalty »

Here is an interesting counterpoint, only through observation and no scientific method. I have generally found that people who have very limited exposure to people of African descent tend to actually, and counter-intuitively, the least racist.

The most racist people I know towards black people are those who live in areas with higher black populations.

I always think of this personal observation whenever I hear that people with racist viewpoints generally just need more exposure to other cultures.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Is that Britland-specific, or are you including the U.S.?

My experience hasn't been the same. Then again, when I was in integrated society, it wasn't always truly integrated. When I was in preschool in South Carolina, I was the only white kid around during the first year. The year after my mother enrolled me (effectively integrating the preschool), two other white teachers' kids joined the preschool.

In Germany, things felt truly integrated--more so than they have seemed before or since. The U.S. Army base near Frankfurt didn't really have a "black section" or a "white section" of the barracks. There were about the same number of black kids and white kids in my class. There were a few Asian Americans in my grade, but it was mostly black and white.

When I was in St. Louis, I lived in some areas that were integrated, and I was a graduate student in a private college that, while mostly white, was still integrated. I didn't encounter much racism on campus or among other students. I had some black friends tell me about being made to pull their cars over by cops, being made to disperse by cops, and being asked to show their student IDs on campus after dark. I didn't see any of this happen to them, but I took their word for it.

I spent a total of about eight years in St. Louis, and I was never made to pull my car over. I was a passenger in Mal's car this one time he was made to pull over, but it was for a license and registration check. Every car was being made to do it.

I was never in a group that was made to disperse (I think there may be some anti-loitering laws in certain areas of St. Louis, but I'm not sure), but I've seen cops make a group of black people disperse a few times. In one of these cases, I was in a group that actually was loitering. We had been loitering since before the group of black people showed up. When the cops came to disperse the group of black people, they walked right past us.

I've also never been made to show my ID on campus after dark--and this despite going for fairly long walks on campus. Some of the walks were as early as 9 p.m., and some were as late as 2 or 3 a.m.

That's all cop-centric stuff, though. I didn't bear witness to all that much racism otherwise. St. Louis is famously segregated--there's a strong concentration of black people north of Delmar Blvd., and there's a strong concentration of white people south of Delmar Blvd.--but I honestly haven't seen that many people being openly racist in St. Louis. I've seen some dumb shit scratched on a bathroom stall, but that's about it. I did live north of Delmar for a summer, but I didn't really interact with anyone but my roommate. In terms of friends, almost all the friends I made in St. Louis were made through school. I didn't really get much of a chance to interact on a daily basis with any specific St. Louis natives.

I lived in Tuscaloosa for five years before I lived in St. Louis. Tuscaloosa felt way more integrated than St. Louis. I did encounter some racism there, but most of it occurred while I was visiting my friend in his fraternity. I didn't hear much of it outside the fraternity. Again, though, most of my interactions were with friends or other students. I didn't interact much at all with Tuscaloosa natives.

The most violent and rampant racism I've encountered has been in Crossville or within ten miles of it. When I see it on Facebook, it's usually something shared or posted by friends or family from Crossville.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Here's a doozy:

AL Man Accidentally Kills Girlfriend While Playing with Gun on Trampoline with Infant

Here's a recent one that's awful but doesn't necessarily scream "Alabama":

Two Marshall County Men Face Rape Charges

It happened about twenty miles from my hometown. One of the guys is named "Michael Watkins." I know a Michael Watkins, but the Michael Watkins I know is a different Michael Watkins.

Here's an Oldie-but-Goodie (from 2006):

Teen Admits Raping Mother to Get Revenge on Brother

It happened about fifteen miles from my hometown.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Mal Shot First »

The Swollen Goiter of God wrote:Is that Britland-specific, or are you including the U.S.?
[I quoted only your opening line because quoting the entire post would have made the quote too large.]

My parents always say that they didn't develop racist views until they moved to the U.S. and came into contact with African Americans. They don't necessarily display open hatred toward them, but they're definitely suspicious of them and don't regard them very highly. I wouldn't call their prejudice true racism, though - it's often directed specifically toward African Americans and not toward African immigrants, whom they often consider honest, good-natured, and reliable. Instead, I think their problem is one related to socioeconomic background.

You see, for a supposedly classless society, Socialist Yugoslavia - where my parents spent half their lives - was actually highly structured. You had high- and mid-level bureaucrats at the top, a middle-class sort of layer below that (composed mostly of white-collar workers), then the proletariat below that, and peasants at the bottom. It was often very clear who came from which background by one's manner of speech or dress or behavior. To this day, the term meaning "peasant" (seljak) is the epitome of uncultured behavior for my parents. It's a catch-all expression for anyone speaking crudely and loudly or being inconsiderate to others. One could compare it to the American notion of rednecks.

There was one group, however, that was considered even worse than peasants, namely the Roma (or gypsies - hardly anyone would use the politically correct term in the former Yugoslavian republics, even today). They were usually not integrated into the communities around which they lived, often settling in their own areas on the outskirt of villages and towns. They had their own language, usually had barely any formal education, and were considered spiteful, petty, and untrustworthy by most other people. My parents say they recognize many of these same characteristics in African Americans and routinely compare many facets of African-American culture to that of the Roma.

Again, though, it's hard to say whether that's actually racism. There's definitely prejudice there, but it's not entirely based on skin color (at least it doesn't seem to me like it is).
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Thanks to you drawing my attention back to my post, I saw that there was a confusing goof in my third sentence.

What I originally wrote:

"My experience hasn't been the same. Then again, when I was in integrated society, it was truly integrated."

What I meant to write:

"My experience hasn't been the same. Then again, when I was in integrated society, it wasn't always truly integrated."
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Dalty »

That view of the Roma is common across Europe Mal and I must say, even if it makes me sound bad, that their first forays en masses into the UK since the expiry of the EU controls following Romania's entrance into the EU are doing very little to challenge that view.

It's even made far right racists and Pakistani immigrants unite in areas with high Roma influxes, the behaviours have been that challenging.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Alabama Man Claims Penis Mistakenly Amputated

"A statement released by hospital spokeswoman Kate Darden said the allegations lacked merit."
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

This is the kind of (alleged) mistake I'd describe as neither a boner nor a cock-up.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Mal Shot First »

Was I supposed to understand what she was saying? Is she talking about actual eagles and tigers or about sports teams? :?
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

She was talking about the animals that represent Auburn University's football team. Auburn sort of has two mascots: an eagle and a tiger. I say "sort of" because they only have one official mascot. The official mascot is a tiger. The tiger is called Aubie. Aubie's the one that gets the mascot suit.

"War Eagle!" is shouted constantly by the team's fans. More recently, they've taken to shouting "War Damn Eagle!" or writing out "WDE!" It's stupid as shit. Because the shouts of "War Eagle!" are so deeply associated with Auburn, they began to bring a live Golden Eagle, named Nova, to the games. I think they're on their seventh or eighth Nova at this point. ("I had a bird named Nova. She died! She died!") They've been bringing eagles to the games since 1930. They sometimes bring a bald eagle. I think the bald eagle is named Spirit. I don't think it gets brought as often. They don't bring tigers to the games, as far as I know.

The University of Alabama also sort of has two mascots. The official mascot is an elephant named Big Al. That's the one that gets the suit. They also have something like a mascot in a red, crashing wave--or, as they call it, the "Crimson Tide." The battle cry for Alabama fans is "Roll Tide!" More recently, they've taken to shouting "Roll Damn Tide!" or writing out "RDT!" It's stupid as shit.

Where the fuck did "Crimson Tide" and "Roll Tide" come from, you ask? The "Crimson" comes from the school's colors (crimson and white), and the "Tide" comes from, I think, some announcer's having noted that the team looked like a red tidal wave rolling down the field in some game from way back. They say it "stuck" as a nickname, but I have a feeling it was force-fadded.

I think I remember them saying the elephant-as-mascot came about in a similar way. Someone (an announcer or a fan) said that the team's thunderous entry onto the field sounded and felt like elephants stampeding. Pretty dumb.

Whatever the case, Alabama and Auburn both essentially have two mascots. It's confusing as shit for people outside of Alabama.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Corporal_Hicks »

I love that football is back.

Edit: Not that pussy shit.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

I meant to note that no research whatsoever went into the talk of Auburn and Alabama mascots, but I got lazy. The reason no research went into it? Also laziness.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Corporal_Hicks wrote:Edit: Not that pussy shit.
I bet Mal's seen pictures of pussy shit while on the job.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Corporal_Hicks »

Sports fans, the hardcore ones, are no different than your circa June 1999 Star Wars fan.

That is a battle ground that makes zero sense for anyone looking In from the outside.

For those in the skirmish, it feels like WW3, ain't it?
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Especially in the South.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by Dalty »

If she was in England she would have been driving that car.
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Re: Alabama, Ladies and Gentlemen!

Post by The Swollen Goiter of God »

Guess who gets to add another notch to his pallbearer belt? Ol' Goiter does. That's who. Didn't even take a full week of being in Alabama.

It was a friend of the family. She was old and Alzheimer's-ridden. She died on Tuesday or Wednesday, but her nephew decided to put the viewing and funeral off until the weekend so that no one would have to miss work. This includes the nephew, obviously. I don't know why he bothered. Funerals are the one time people are pretty much issued a no-questions-asked, get-out-of-work-free card. Now there's a rotting body on some slab waiting for the weekend.

I've borne plenty of pall in my day. This will be somewhere between the fifth and tenth time for me. I can name six of them. I'm pretty sure there's a seventh and maybe even an eighth.

I'd whine about the inconvenience of it, but I suppose I'm better off than she is. She's a cold dead thing. She had feelings and thoughts, and she probably knew lyrics to songs and had a favorite color.

She was nice to me. She was a teacher, like so many people I grew up around. She had jet black hair into her eighties. I've been told it was natural, and I've been told it was a dye job. Maybe it's her secret to take to the grave. She's taking the hair there, regardless.
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