Brexit

[Adam54]

So how is the shooting changing public opinion on the referendum? Too soon to tell in a wide scale, I'd imagine, but have you heard anything personally?

[Dalty]

It's not, thus far. Pretty much no serious news outlet is making any attempt to link the two seriously. Yet.

[Dalty]

Extreme right wing links (white supremacy) and mental illness seems to be the prognosis.

[neglet]

NPR reported this morning he had previous contact with white supremacist groups in the US.

[Dalty]

Yup - so it would be disengenous but sadly typical of Guardianistas and their ilk to try and smear this as a Brexit / EU issue.

[The Swollen Goiter of God]

Is this one of those things where someone with a lot of money would try to push an It-couldn't-possibly-be-a-Brexit/EU-issue! narrative and someone without much money would try to push an It's-absolutely-a-Brexit/EU-issue! narrative?

[Dalty]

No, it's something where a desperate and scared Remainer would try and score political points from it. All the Remainers are the rich ones!

[Adam54]

I read yesterday that our stock market went up (as well as the price of oil) because polls are shifting in a more favorable direction?

Not that polls are to be trusted over there these days.

[Dalty]

Depends what you class as more favourable?

[Adam54]

I'd imagine it was the Stay vote?

[Dalty]

Probably - but that made the £ go up which hurts exports. Swings/roundabouts.

[omicron]

Keeping It 1600 podcast had an interesting interview with a Guardian pollster about the Brexit and UK politics in general.

[Adam54]

Was it the most recent one?

[omicron]

My bad, I just looked at my ipod and it was the latest 538 podcast, not Keeping It 1600.

[Adam54]

Ah! No wonder I couldn't find it. I somehow didn't know there was a 538 podcast though, so that's even more exciting. Thanks for the tip!

[Dalty]

This pretty much sums up "Remain" - or "Project Fear" as they call it.

image.jpeg (595.46 KiB) Viewed 662 times

[The Swollen Goiter of God]

Are you sure it's not an EU thing? Isn't "Brexit" a portmanteau combining "Britain" and "exit"? What is Britain seeking to exit? Is it seeking to exit the EU? Because that's what it seems like. If so--to me, at least--that would make "Brexit" at least somewhat an EU thing.

Is it a thing where the people with money are generally the ones pushing for leaving the EU and people without money are generally the ones pushing for staying with the EU?

[Dalty]

No, seriously, the people who want in are the rich. Their wages haven't been pushed down by uncontrolled immigration and they benefit from globalisation and big non-governmental structures.

[The Swollen Goiter of God]

Was the shooting and stabbing the thing you were saying wasn't an EU thing? I can't remember, and I'm not going to do myself the minor inconvenience of rereading any of this thread.

So is it this thing where the people who want in are rich and the people who want out are not? Is it a thing where the poor generally want one thing and the wealthy generally want the other thing? Is it, instead, a thing where the very poor and very wealthy want the same thing, but you and other like-minded people want the other thing? What would you want if you were poor? Would it be the same thing you currently want? Can you answer in a way that allows you to be honest with yourself, or is there no real way to divorce yourself philosophically from your bags and bags of money?

[Dalty]

I am 60/40 in favour of out, but that's purely emotional and philosophical. If it was 100% based on head power I would probably plump for the status quo.

[The Swollen Goiter of God]

What does the status quo want? If possible, answer in a way that suggests you think me to have no better grasp on British politics than the average US American toddler.

[Adam54]

I'm almost entirely ignorant on this so forgive me in advance if it's a stupid question, but isn't Greece an example of a European country who stayed out of the EU? Obviously they've mishandled their own affairs quite a bit, but might things have been different for their economy had they joined up?

[Dalty]

No, no, no! Greece are well in the EU and well in the Euro. It is both of these things that is causing them hardship and destroying their economy and causing mass unemployment.

Same with Spain and Portugal, and France to a lesser degree. Basket case economies robbed of the ability to set interest rates and devalue currency to dig their way out of the mire.

And the unelected technocrats that were forced on them from Brussels are prolonging the misery.

Germany wants them to stay, won't let them leave, because their economies acting like an anchor on the Euro keep it low in value, which means Germany, an exporting powerhouse, can generate huge income from flinging Audi's and VW's and Huff Houses around the world far cheaper than if they still had the Deutschemark.

[Adam54]

Oh! My mistake. So there's really less economic reasons to stay than there are social ones? Easier movement across borders, study in a different country without issue, vacation in Athens without a passport, etc?

Which I suppose are the reasons the security hawks are chirping about as good cases for leaving?

[Dalty]

Security hawks are saying stay, which is bollocks as we are not leaving Five-Eyes or NATO, which are the two mechanisms that ensure security far more than the EU.

And we didn't need a visa to visit any Euro country before the Maastricht treaty, and we still need a passport.

As you can see, it's fairly full of bullshit.