What are you lookin' at?! Right now...

[Dalty]

Olympus Has Fallen. It's awful and codswollop, but magnificent!

[Adam54]

I had forgotten how incredible Rocky I is, some really clever touches around the finale/reveal of the result. And how bleak the whole portrayal of pre-fight Rocky's life is. A very emotional movie.

I can't recall if we've ever had this talk or not, but either way, I'd like to get my belief that this is the single most overrated film of all time submitted to the record.

[Dalty]

You took 20+ years to watch Raiders and Jaws. Your opinion is forfeit!

[Jubbers]

We watched Moana over the weekend. I wanted to watch Dr Strange, but was sick the two weekends in a row my mom was willing to watch Jubboiter, and it left the tiny hometown theater near my parents the day we came up for holidays. So Moana it was. Ended up being much better than trailers made it out to be and now I have Jermaine Clement stuck in my head.

[Mal Shot First]

...and now I have Jermaine Clement stuck in my head.

Maybe you should get that checked.

[neglet]

I had forgotten how incredible Rocky I is, some really clever touches around the finale/reveal of the result. And how bleak the whole portrayal of pre-fight Rocky's life is. A very emotional movie.

I can't recall if we've ever had this talk or not, but either way, I'd like to get my belief that this is the single most overrated film of all time submitted to the record.

I will see you your "Rocky" and raise you a "Forrest Gump." A gimmicky, hokey story completely unworthy of the Best Picture Oscar, especially over "Pulp Fiction."

[Adam54]

That's certainly an abomination, no doubt. But Rocky's hokey story won best picture over Network, All The President's Men, and Taxi Driver. That's so very much more unjust.

[The Swollen Goiter of God]

I'm pretty sure I've defended Rocky in the past. If it wasn't here, it was at Corona 2.0.

I fuckin' love Rocky. It's iconic as all hell. I like that the hero loses at the end. The dialog's solid, the direction's solid, the acting's solid-to-fantastic (there's even a Coppola in it!), and Conti's score is one of the all-time best. It's a David-and-Goliath tale about a missed-his-shot no-account rising above his station. (Sure, he's doing it by going the poor man's route of allowing rich bastards to exploit his willingness to destroy his mind and body for the entertainment of others, but that's part of its beauty. It's a victory wrapped in a tragedy.) It shares a lot with On the Waterfront, which was a Best Picture winner before it.

Rocky is also a movie that doesn't have a real villain. (If I had to pick one, maybe I'd go with the promoters.) This is pretty intriguing to me. Creed may have been touched a little too deeply by overconfidence and capitalism, but the core of his humanity is still there, and I like that it gets explored more as the series goes on. I also like that the series goes on, even if the message of the first movie gets muddled and bastardized from movie to movie. (There's often a new message with each new movie. Sometimes it's a good one. Sometimes, maybe, it's not as good. Rocky IV's pretty problematic.)

Those other movies, too, are all-time greats. They're also iconic as all hell. I don't think their greatness lessens Rocky's, though. I think Rocky goes toe-to-toe with them. If you're looking for a reason it won over them, part of it is probably the year of its release. Bicentennial. Patriotism at an all-time high. Love of the underdog, et cetera. The movie, itself, could be said to take a subversive stance on patriotism--or, if nothing else, to be a potential, subtle condemnation of nationalism. Creed's the one who wears the USA trunks, after all. (Rocky IV doesn't seem to condemn it at all. This is part of what makes it problematic. It gets preachy.) And there's something neat about that, really. The black dude's on top. And, again, he's not the villain.

If it isn't clear, I consciously go too far with the "subtle condemnation of nationalism" stuff. Rocky does, though, appear to suggest both that work is what makes our country work and that making too many assumptions about one's preeminence is handicapping. This is the stuff of Greco-Roman dramas. It's fatal flaws and pride coming before the fall. Of course, Rocky doesn't technically win, so it's also a statement about the embeddedness of the system and its ultimate insuperability. (Rocky does eventually rise to the top in subsequent films, but he also has to become part of the system to do it. He becomes Creed, essentially, and like Creed, he has to be taken down a few pegs before the core of his humanity can be explored further.)

Did Rocky "deserve" the win? I dunno. Talk of desert usually gets into some tricky territory. The Academy Award is, of course, bullshit. We honor movies best by watching them, loving them, committing them to our memories and hearts, making them a part of our cultural heritage, and introducing them to those who come after us. Rocky has certainly been honored in this way. For better or worse, it gives people hope.

[Dalty]

We are up to Rocky IV in Mrs Dalty's indoctrination. What struck me more than the Cold War jingoistic stuff (which, let's be honest, you are kinda immune to once you know it's there after repeated viewings) was just how tight a movie it is. There is literally not one ounce of fat in it at all. It's only 93 mins long and just motors along.

[neglet]

Anybody else watching "The Crown"? We are thoroughly enjoying it here in our former ex-pat household. Dalty? What are the Brits thinking of it?

[Dalty]

It's getting a good write up. I haven't seen any of it but Mum wants to steal my Netflix ID and watch it!

[Dalty]

Westworld Ep 8. Have 9 saved too. Catching up.

[Dalty]

Whatever the hell Maeve is up to, it clearly isn't going to end well.

[Space Tycoon]

At a sports bar watching the Toronto Football Club defeat Montreal. Soccer has really taken off up here these past few years and the TFC are a source of pride.

Now the game is over, people are leaving, and I shall be at liberty to leer at the female servers with impunity.

Pathetic, yes.

[Dalty]

Depends how leery the leering is.

[Space Tycoon]

Depends how leery the leering is.

Nothing awful. Mostly respectful.

[Dalty]

No Devin Faraci moves??

[Dalty]

Avatar. It's been a while. It's still too long as a movie.

[Dalty]

It really is staggeringly ambitious!

[The Swollen Goiter of God]

I don't remember feeling like anything outside of the visuals was ambitious. I remember it feeling bland and lazy, dialog- and story-wise.

[The Swollen Goiter of God]

And the lead's as uncharismatic as they come.

[Mal Shot First]

Sam Unworthington?

[Dalty]

The remake of Point Break.

It would be OK if it wasn't tagged as a remake of Point Break.

[Dalty]

On second thoughts, when it gets to the psycho-babble mumbo jumbo extreme sports stuff the dialogue gets truly awful!

[Space Tycoon]

No Devin Faraci moves??

I do not possess that level of sophistication.