Huffy Flounce

So Russia and the US suspend co-operation in Syria.

Russia suspends US nuclear fuel deal.

Ukraine rumbles on.

Russian bombers routinely probing U.K. airspace.

Increased Russian activity in the Baltic, and two new ships into the Med.

This : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37572738

Are we heading back to the 80s?

Dalty wrote:So Russia and the US suspend co-operation in Syria.

Russia suspends US nuclear fuel deal.

Ukraine rumbles on.

Russian bombers routinely probing U.K. airspace.

Increased Russian activity in the Baltic, and two new ships into the Med.

This : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37572738

Are we heading back to the 80s?

Hopefully. The '80s had the best music.

Don't you - - - - - Forget about me.....

Would you like to play global thermonuclear war? How about a nice game of chess?

Dalty wrote:Don't you - - - - - Forget about me.....

*holds up a lighter flame*

Remember 1989 -1991 though? When we just convinced ourselves the world became a safer place around us?

It's not a real Cold War until Russia heads up the creation of fully functioning UN analog.

The "End of History-New World Order" crap peddled by neoconservatives and neoliberals at that time now looks dangerously shortsighted and naive, to be sure.

Even more so when you realize that those ideologues never had any intention of implementing a peace agenda at home or abroad. As soon as the USSR seemed ready to fold up for good, the hawks in the first Bush Administration saw their opportunity and acted. First invading Panama in '89, then Iraq in '91. Actions they probably would not have undertaken--or at least not as brazenly--had the Soviet Union maintained it's previous economic and military strength.

Neocons went on to influence the Clinton, Bush II, and Obama Administrations, to varying degrees. Pushing for NATO expansion in Central and Eastern Europe; financially backing pro-Western parties in former Warsaw Pact countries and Soviet republics, including Russia itself; and perhaps worst of all, the so-called missile "defense" initiatives encircling Russia. Some would include the bombing of Serbia, a key Russian ally, among these others. I would as well, although I supported it at the time(I stress--at the time)-- and I continue to believe there was a genuine humanitarian component to the Kosovo mission. Obama-Hilary's half-assed attempt at regime change in Syria also rubs Moscow the wrong way, as that country has been a strong Russian ally for generations.

Russians, with their long history of external invasion and subversion, understandably see these as provocations. This is one area where Trump actually says the correct things. US and Russia have to have a stronger relationship. Putin won't last forever, and for all we know, the next generation of leadership may very well be reformists. It would be a tragic mistake to lose that opportunity at northern hemispheric co-operation, as we did from the 90's onwards.

Yes, Dalty, before you mention it, I'm aware of Putin's many crimes and misdemeanours. But I rarely hear any critiques of the West's approach to Russia on these boards, unless they're coming from me.

That last statement sounded a little self-serving, agreed.

Space Tycoon wrote:I rarely hear any critiques of the West's approach to Russia on these boards, unless they're coming from me.

That's just because you haven't properly gotten me started on the topic.

Mal might have a unique perspective on the Cold War if we get him started on the topic. He might have something to say about Russia post-Cold War, too.

Speaking of the UN and Russia, I think Russia was one of the countries that opposed the lifting on the UN-imposed arms embargo on Bosnia and the rest of the Yugoslav territories, despite Bosnia's intense lobbying. (This doesn't really have anything to do with anything. It's just one of the very few bits of trivia I know linking Russia, Bosnia, and the UN in the post-Cold War period.)

Mal should get down with this thread.

Anyway, many, if not all, of the foreign policy headaches the US has had to deal with lately are directly or indirectly the result of loose ends of the Cold War that were never quite tied up.

I actually agree with you Spacey. After 'winning' the First Cold War the West has consistently pushed Russia too far. Putin is a borderline psychopath and a complete cunt, but the West has really not helped.

Yeah, we are really in for a rough decade ahead if something doesn't change soon. Sabres are rattling...

I'm reading a book about Andropov. It's titled, "Andropov."

The book is more compelling than the title.

Anyway, he was the last "bad" Soviet ruler before Gorbachev and Glasnost. Talk about night and day. Andropov was an old-school, KGB Stalinist killer who turned a lot of bodies cold on his path to power. However, his successor was a very different man, and for a while, at least, a new era of peace and co-operation seemed possible.

Perhaps some younger Gorbachev is waiting in the wings in Russia. If I did a little research, I could probably come up with a name or two.

Putin is an ex-KGB hardman who knows and understands force. He also knows we are weak, wobbly, tired and in transition so he is making hay while the sun shines.

In the U.K., in particular, without the seemingly limitless defence budget of the US, our forces are now shaped for non-linear warfare vs. insurgent types. Intel gathering, special forces, small and fast deployments. It will take us a while to re-pivot to anything like a Cold War stance and level of preparedness.

Worryingly, in Europe it's still probably only us and, to a lesser degree, the French that maintain anything close to a full spectrum capability.

Putin knows this and knows all we can do is talk.

Interestingly the air power attendance at RIAT this year was significantly up on previous and more peaceful years. Air shows might be fun but they are also useful exercises in proving overseas / forward operating deployment capabilities for air forces and the NATO powers were much more represented this year. This included the USAF bringing Raptors and the USMC bringing F35s. A USAF retired Colonel I was chatting to in the VIP enclosure said this was indicative of prepping for heightened readiness.

Putin also knows that the US and other western nations have squandered untold hundreds of billions in the Middle East and Central Asia--wars the Russians opposed quite vocally

Interesting article about Putin's possible successors:

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog ... r-be-worse

And now, this.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37597075

Obviously an attempt at overcompensation. Penis issues.

Kalingrad is like the Crimea, a worrying hangover that will come back to haunt the West.